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January 2018: SSPX Lays Groundwork for Pontifical Recognition - Stone - 12-06-2020
From the Archived Catacombs:
New Article coming from the Menzingen General House priming the General Chapter -- mascots ABL to push roman thought.
The theme: "The Society of St. Pius X must seek pontifical recognition..."
Law is the principle concern and the faith is optional to put in the chaos of the conciliar Vatican.
Object: Get peoples mind off of the pre-1988 Menzingen to dwell on the 2018 conciliar Menzingen.
This is a reminder Bishop Fellay already set the stage and unveiled the new change of structure for the neo-sspx here thecatacombs.org/thread/335/bishop-fellay-unveils-sspx-prelature
For them, there is no going back.
Quote:Source: FSSPX.news
Jan. 16. 2018
What will happen at the General Chapter of the Fraternity of St. Pius X?
From July 11 to 21, will be held the fourth General Chapter of the Fraternity of St. Pius X.
Many Catholics are worried about the evolution of the Vatican. The discussions around the post-synodal exhortation Amoris laetitia or the attacks on priestly celibacy in the perspective of the announced synod on the Amazon leave the faithful perplexed.
Cardinals stand against other cardinals, bishops against bishops. Not many Catholics of good will today recognize that Archbishop Lefebvre was right. That is why the eyes of many - even outside the ranks of traditionalists - are turning to the General Chapter.
The Bulletin of the District of Germany met with the Secretary General of the Fraternity of St. Pius X, Father Christian Thouvenot, in charge of the preparation of the Chapter.
Mitteilungsblatt: We would like to inform the faithful of the progress of the 2018 General Chapter. Could you begin by introducing yourself and explaining your role at the General House?
Christian Thouvenot: I have been a priest since the year 2000 and has been Secretary General since 2008. My job is to follow the correspondence of the General House with the seminaries and the districts, as well as with the members, to keep to day the files of the members priests, brothers, oblates and seminarians. I take care of the register of the deliberations of the General Council and transmit its decisions to the superiors concerned. I also take care of the archives and the communication of the Fraternity.
The Brotherhood is led by a Superior General, assisted by two Assistants, all three elected?
Indeed, the Brotherhood is led by three superiors elected for a twelve-year term. Their attributions concern the smooth running of the fraternity, the organization of the apostolate, the nominations throughout the world, etc. They must be careful, according to the Statutes, to maintain and increase in the hearts of all members "a great generosity, a deep spirit of faith, an ardent zeal in the service of the Church and souls". They have their home in Menzingen, where they can rest between two apostolic races but also work, pray, study ...
The Brotherhood has had a good growth in recent years. You published some statistics recently. Can you tell us more?
The Priestly Fraternity of St. Pius X is growing slowly but steadily. Everywhere, the works need support and renewal of their strengths. That is why it is important to always ask and pray for many priestly and religious vocations, especially many holy priests.
Let's come to the Chapter ...
Next July will be held the fourth General Chapter of the Fraternity of St. Pius X. This meeting is important since it elects the major superiors for twelve years, and verifies if the Society remains faithful to its statutes and its spirit. It is an opportunity to take stock of the apostolate, the development of the works, the life of community, the means of sanctification of the members. It will take place at the seminary Saint-Pie X, in Ecône. It brings together all the superiors of districts and seminaries, the bishops, as well as the oldest members. It will be preceded by a priestly retreat to prepare well.
What is the task of a Chapter?
As I told you, the Chapter aims to elect major superiors and verify the application of the statutes. On the occasion of the Chapter, all the members were able to write to the General Secretariat to express their opinion, their wishes or to express their difficulties. All these opinions will be the subject of summaries and discussions in the Chapter.
Who can be elected Superior General?
Can be elected any member priest, aged at least thirty years and having pronounced his perpetual engagement in the Fraternity. This represents a list of eligible 462 names! The Superior General is elected by a 2/3 majority, and the Assistants by an absolute majority of votes. The elections, in which the 41 capitulants take part, are held in secret ballots.
The statutes drafted by Monsignor Marcel Lefebvre provide that the Superior General must seek the pontifical recognition of the Society of St. Pius X. Will the question of a personal Prelature be discussed?
Indeed, our statutes provide that the fraternity makes "the necessary steps to become of pontifical right". This was the concern of Archbishop Lefebvre, against the unjust and illegal suppression of the Brotherhood in 1975, and at the time of the proposals of canonical recognition he formulated in 1987. But this question of our legal status is a consequence of the abnormal situation of the Church and the bad trial that is done to us. We are Roman Catholics, deeply united with the Pope and the hierarchy of the Church, but in the Catholic faith. We follow the pope, vicar of Christ and successor of St. Peter, not Luther or Lamennais. We recognize the magisterium, the authority of the Roman Pontiff and Councils, but in the continuity of Tradition, not in the novelties that corrupt the faith, the liturgy and the doctrine of the Church.
To answer your question, it is likely that the question of personal Prelature status will be asked at the Chapter. But it is the Superior General alone who leads the Fraternity and who is responsible for the relations of Tradition with the Holy See. Archbishop Lefebvre, in 1988, wanted to clarify this aspect.
In your opinion, what are the other important themes for the life of the Fraternity to which the General Chapter will have to respond?
The Chapter will examine all aspects of daily life, check the management of the property, will certainly address the issues of recruitment, perseverance, schools, missions, development of works and the application of the statutes in our communities .
The heart of the fraternity is the seminaries. What problems arise and need to be solved? You were previously in higher education, so you had to deal with students ...
The seminars are indeed at the heart of the life of the Fraternity, which is primarily a work of restoration of the Catholic priesthood, and therefore training to give the Church the priests it so badly needs. The priority is to provide a good level of training, and therefore to have a competent faculty. Which must also be able to accompany the vocations so that they climb one by one the steps of the altar and cultivate the priestly virtues.
The Sisters of the Fraternity of Saint Pius X also have their General Chapter this year ...
The Sisters of the Society of St. Pius X will effectively hold their own Chapter in the spring. They serve magnificently alongside priests and their religious life brings a lot to priory and schools where they are dedicated.
What can the faithful do for the Chapter?
The faithful are invited to pray now for the intentions of the Chapter, and more broadly for the development of the Fraternity as a work of Church, as its venerated founder has desired. In particular, I think of the members of the Third Order who share more closely our spirit and our intentions, who often dedicate themselves in the priory and bring daily suffrage of their prayers to this providential work.
RE: January 2018: SSPX Lays Groundwork for Pontifical Recognition - Stone - 12-06-2020
From the Archived Catacombs - a reply:
Its not as if the SSPX was unaware of the dangers of seeking 'pontifical recognition' with an un-converted Rome:
Archbishop Lefebvre:
6) Rome Cannot be Trusted
-“For fifteen years we dialogued to try to put the tradition back in its place of honour, in that place in the Church which it has by right. We ran up against a continual refusal. What Rome grants in favour of this tradition at present is nothing but a purely political gesture, a piece of diplomacy so as to force people into compromise. But it is not a conviction of the benefits of Tradition.” (Fideliter No. 79, January-February 1991)
- “When they say they [Dom Gerard and the Fraternity of St. Peter] don’t have to give anything up, that’s false. They have given up the ability to oppose Rome. They cannot say anything anymore. They must remain silent given the favours that have been granted them. It is now impossible for them to expose the errors of the Conciliar Church. Softly, softly they adhere, even be it only by their Profession of Faith that is requested by Cardinal Ratzinger. I think Dom Gérard is about to publish a small book written by one of his monks on Religious Liberty and which will try to justify it. From the point of view of ideas, they begin to slide ever so slowly and end up by admitting the false ideas of the Council, because Rome has granted them some favours of Tradition. It’s a very dangerous situation” (Fideliter No. 79, January-February 1991)
-“The bishops concerned - the supposedly conservative bishops - are wholly supportive of the Council and of the post-Conciliar reforms, of ecumenism and of the charismatic movement. Apparently, they are being a little more moderate and showing slightly more traditional religious sentiment, but it does not go deep. The great fundamental principles of the Council, the errors of the Council, they accept them and put them into practice. That is no problem for them. On the contrary, I would go so far as to say that it is these conservative bishops who treat us the worst. It is they who would the most insistently demand that we submit to the principles of the Council.” (One Year After the Consecrations, July-August, 1989)
-“For them there is no question of abandoning the New Mass. On the contrary. That is obvious. That is why what can look like a concession is in reality merely a maneuver to separate us from the largest number of faithful possible. This is the perspective in which they seem to be always giving a little more and even going very far. We must absolutely convince our faithful that it is no more than a maneuver, that it is dangerous to put oneself into the hands of Conciliar bishops and Modernist Rome. It is the greatest danger threatening our people. If we have struggled for twenty years to avoid the Conciliar errors, it was not in order, now, to put ourselves in the hands of those professing these errors.” (One Year After the Consecrations, July-August, 1989)
-“I admit that the optimism I showed regarding the Council and the Pope was ill-founded.” (Letter to Andre Cagnon, January 6, 1988, Marcel Lefebvre: The Biography, p.331)
-“There will be possibly other manifestations of putting the brakes on by the Vatican; and it is very, very dangerous for us to "rally" ourselves now. No rallying, no rallying to the liberals; no rallying to the ecclesiastics who are governing in the Church now and who are liberals; there is no rallying to these people. From the moment when we rally ourselves, this rallying will be the acceptance of the liberal principles. We cannot do this, even if certain appeasements are given us on the Mass of St. Pius V - certain satisfactions, certain recognitions, certain incardinations, which could even be offered to you eventually... That they give us back everything. That they give up their liberalism, that they come back to the real truth of the Church, to the faith of the Church, to the basic principles of the Church, of this total dependence of society, of families, of individuals on Our Lord Jesus Christ! At that moment when they give us the Mass of all times, very well, then, we are completely in agreement. Then there will be a perfect understanding, we will be able to be recognized, and we will have no more scruples. But as long as one is dealing with people who have made this agreement with the Devil, with liberal ideas, we cannot have any confidence. They will string us along little by little; they will try to catch us in their traps, as long as they have not let go of these false ideas.” (Conference, December 13, 1984)
-“That is why, taking into account the strong will of the present Roman authorities to reduce Tradition to naught, to gather the world to the spirit of Vatican II and the spirit of Assisi, we have preferred to withdraw ourselves and to say that we could not continue. It was not possible. We would have evidently been under the authority of Cardinal Ratzinger, President of the Roman Commission, which would have directed us; we were putting ourselves into his hands, and consequently putting ourselves into the hands of those who wish to draw us into the spirit of the Council and the spirit of Assisi. This was simply not possible.” (Sermon June 30, 1988)
-“For them, their goal is to divide Tradition. They already have Dom Augustin, they have de Blignièreres, and now they have Dom Gérard. This weakens our position still further. It is their goal: divide to make us disappear.” (Interview for Controverses, 1989)
-“These are fabrications. If ever there were a willingness from Rome to resume discussions, this time, I will be the one to set down the conditions. As Cardinal Oddi said, “Archbishop Lefebvre is in a strong position.” That is why I will demand that the discussions concern doctrinal points. They have to stop with their ecumenism, they have to bring back the true meaning of the Mass, restore the true definition of the Church, bring back the Catholic meaning of collegiality, and so on. I expect from them a Catholic, and not a liberal, definition of religious liberty. They must accept the encyclical Quas Primas on Christ the King, and the Syllabus (Pius IX). They must accept all this, because this is from now on the condition determining all new discussions between us and them.” (Interview for Controverses, 1989)
-“It is imperative to know that today Rome is at the service of the revolution and therefore terribly anti-traditional. That is why I refused to put myself in their hands. They only wanted that, by recognizing my mistakes, I help them continue their revolution in the Church – no more, no less. All those who have left us are not aware of the situation and believe in the good will and the rectitude of thought of the bishops or cardinals in Rome. Nothing is further from the truth! ‘It is not possible for them to lead us into the revolution,’ say those who agree with the Pope and his bishops. Well, that is exactly what will happen.” (Interview for Controverses, 1989)
-“And I even wrote to him [Dom Gerard]. We must no longer discuss with the Roman authorities. They only want to bring us back to the Council; we must not have relations with them. Dom Gérard replied that his case was different and that he would try anyway. I do not approve.” (Interview for Controverses, 1989)
-“It is time to take a second decision to face up to this Rome. What else can we do? And if they insist that it is worse this time round, because this time it could mean excommunication, well, I reply that the basic problem remains unchanged: Rome means to exterminate Tradition.” (Recommendations to the Four Bishops-Elect, June 12, 1988)
-“I think that it is that outlook that should guide us in our present situation. Let us not deceive ourselves by believing that by these little braking actions that are given on the right and on the left, in the excesses of the present situation, that we are seeing a complete return to Tradition. That is not true, that is not true. They remain always liberal minds. It is always the liberals who rule Rome, and they remain liberal. But, as the Cardinal says, they have gone a bit too far; they have to find a little balance.” (Conference, December 13, 1984)
-“Upon reflection, it appears clear that the goal of these dialogues is to reabsorb us within the Conciliar Church, the only Church to which you make allusion during these meetings.” (Letter to Cardinal Ratzinger, May 24, 1988)
-“It is obvious that by putting themselves in the hands of the present conciliar authorities, they [Ecclesia Dei priests] implicitly accept the Council and the reforms that came from it, even if they receive privileges which remain exceptional and provisional. Their acceptance stops them saying anything. The bishops are watching them.” (Letter to Fr. Daniel Couture, March 18, 1989)
-“Then there are some who would be ready to sacrifice the fight for the Faith, by saying: Let us first re-enter the Church! Let us do everything to re-enter in the official public structure of the Church. Let us be silent about our dogmatic problem. Let us be silent about our fight. Let us not speak about the malice of the [new] Mass anymore. Let us close our mouths and say nothing anymore. Let’s not be opposed to that. Let’s not say anything anymore about the issues of religious liberty, of human rights and of ecumenism. Let’s be silent. Let’s be silent and like that we will be able to re-enter into the structure of the Church. We will please those who are in the Church. We are going to re-enter like that into the Church, and once we will be inside the Church, you will see, we will be able to fight, we will be able to do this, we will be able to do that… This is absolutely false! You don’t enter into a structure and under superiors, saying that you will overthrow everything as soon as you are inside, whereas they have all the means to suppress us! They have all the authority.” (Conference December 21, 1984)
--“We cannot place ourselves under an authority which has liberal ideas, which will necessarily lead us, little by little, by force of circumstances, to accept liberal ideas and all the consequences of these liberal ideas, which are the new Mass, the changes in the liturgy, the changes in the Bible, the changes in the catechism – all the changes… We say: But they fought against the catechism!... This is simply ‘putting on the brakes’ because it goes so far that it was necessary to ‘put on the brakes’ a bit. And the same for the theology of liberation, the same for all that is happening now in the Church and which, of course, frightens them a bit. The consequences of their own principles frighten them. So they ‘put on the brakes’ on the right and on the left, but they are determined to keep liberal ideas. There is no question of changing the liberal ideas.” (Conference, December 21, 1984)
“Although Conciliar Rome’s lying has often been proven to be a fact, it is never useless [for them] to try, since they will always find some who will take the bait.” (Letter to Mgr. de Galarreta and priests, seminarians and faithful in South America, July 16, 1989)
“Most of our priests, seminarians and faithful do not delude themselves and are convinced that it is impossible to trust the authorities of the Conciliar Church for as long as they profess such errors.”(Letter to Mgr. de Galarreta and priests, seminarians and faithful in South America, July 16, 1989)
- Fideliter: Since the Episcopal Consecrations in June of 1988 there have been no more contacts with Rome, however, as you told us, Cardinal Oddi telephoned you saying: “We must come to an agreement. Make a little apology to the Pope and he is ready to welcome you”. Then why not try this final step, and why does it seem impossible to you?
Archbishop Lefebvre: It is absolutely impossible in the present climate in Rome which is becoming worse and worse. We must be under no illusions. The principles now directing the Conciliar Church are more and more openly contrary to Catholic doctrine. … Lastly, the Pope is more ecumenical than ever. All the false ideas of the Council are continuing to develop and to be re-stated with ever more clarity. They are more and more coming out into the open. It is therefore absolutely unthinkable that we should accept or collaborate with such a hierarchy. (Fideliter no. 79 January – February 1991)